‘I’m a walking Cheque!’: Tariq Aziz

How many Neelam Ghars have you conducted so far?

I don’t remember the exact number. With a break, it is running for about 10 years. That means the number of my programs might be over 500.

Once you produced a film, Sajan Rang Rangeela. Why didn’t you continue in that field?

In fact, I had started three films. Only one of them was completed. The second one. Aag Mein Phool, was initiated here in Karachi, in 1969. I was arrested in between, during the martial law of Yahya Khan. I was kept in the Hyderabad jail. From there, I sent a message to my heroine. Shaista Qaiser, to wait for my release. But she didn’t. She worked in a Gujrati film which flopped. So, her image of a fresh girl was shattered. Some other actors also left me. And when I was released … jab aankh khuli gul ki tau mausam tha khizan ka.

How long did you remain in jail?

For seven months.

Why did you go to jail?

For political reasons.

Which was your third film?

It was Jeay Bhutto. I could only complete a few reels before the project went down the drain because of party politics.

And you left the Pakistan People’s Party?

I left PPP after the Simla Agreement. I had accompanied. Mr. Bhutto to Simla. On my return, I left the Party, since I was unable to understand certain things.

You did not approve of the Simla Agreement?

I didn’t say that I only said that I left the Party after coming back from Simla. I was not a professional politician. In the Ayub Khan days, I had liked the policies of the PPP so I had joined it. Because of my performance, very soon I started being counted amongst the front rankers. I was a very good speaker.

Did you make political speeches too?

I think you are not aware of my background. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have asked this question. Any child in this country knows the answer to this question.

I must be a child when you used to make political speeches. But on a recent occasion, I attended a meeting at the Karachi Press Club, on the eve of Habib Jalib’s birthday. You were also supposed to deliver a speech there. I was waiting to listen to you but you didn’t speak. Or maybe you couldn’t…

Yes… that one… it was strange…

What happened? They didn’t allow you to speak.

Yes. They didn’t

Why? Since you had a long political background?

I have not been able to understand to this day why the audience did not let me speak. I was invited by the office bearers of the Press Club. I went there to represent the artist community. The office-bearers insisted that I should say a few words. So, in that good faith, I wanted to say a few words. But I had no idea that they had also invited some lucha lafangas there.

Were they lucha lafungas? I think they were all PPP workers.

But I would call them lucha lafangas. Because the PPP leaders! still respect me. They know me and my performance. Many of them also know that I didn’t make money in my days. I came with my pockets full and left the Party with my hands empty, Therefore, I don’t call such unfortunate persons who don’t know me, as party workers.

Perhaps they were angry with you because you left the party?

I don’t know. And I don’t care for the people. I don’t have to get votes from them. I had only joined the party to give them something, and not to take anything. I had started my political career with Bhashani’s conference in Toba Tek Singh. And my speech was better than anybody else present there. There were a lot of so-called socialists and communists present there, who are still in politics. And who are doing businesses worth millions and billions but still they are socialists and communists. They join politics as a profession. It was not a profession for me. And then, they can differ with me on ideological grounds! but I’d not allow them to … And an interesting fact is that at the Press Club that day I could see banners demanding freedom of speech and expression. But they didn’t allow me to speak. But I don’t care. I am no more in practical politics.

“It is a badtameez society. Our people lack education. They don’t know what to do if they are guests somewhere.”

Maybe you realized how far you could go in politics?

I could have gone much far, but I don’t like the current politics in Pakistan. It is not worth joining.

Let’s discuss your television program. What is your method to invite suitable guests in Neelam Ghar? Do you make sure that those coming to your quiz program are prepared, or that have at least better knowledge than others?

No. There is no such preparation. In fact, the TV station distributes the invitation cards. I mean the producer does it. I don’t have anything to do with that. These cards reach the guests through different sources. Some are distributed through the TV’s sales office, some through the GM and the PM, and some through the commercial companies which participate in the program. Anyway, every week, 800 to 1000 guests are invited. My work starts in the hall. I select people for quiz on the spot. Sometimes I do it after asking them a few questions, and sometimes I do it through a draw. That is why in some programs I find bright people so the program is good. Some other times, when the participants are dull, the program also becomes dull. But I do equal labor on every program.

Don’t you ever think of doing it in a little organized way? I mean to invite better people, and to scrutinize their worth in advance?

Why not? Everyone wants an ideal situation to work in. Like in western countries, such programs require a whole establishment. They have teams of researchers and writers. Everything that is to be said is scripted. Then the guests who are supposed to participate in the quiz have to clear certain tests.

Don’t you think sometimes the dullness of your program disappoints the viewers?

Obviously. If a program does not fulfill the viewers’ expectations, they must be disappointed.

And you?

I am also disappointed sometimes.

How do you express your disappointment on stage?

I don’t. Because I am a professional. Ethically, I am not supposed to express my disappointment before the camera.

An objection generally voiced against your program is that your behavior with the guests, and particularly with the participants of quiz, is usually that of someone superior to them! The fact that you are holding the answer cards certainly makes you superior for the moment. But there is an additional humiliating attitude. It is said that because of this behavior, your guests become nervous and they can’t take part in the program in a normal way. That is why sometimes it is dull Would you comment?

Well, while analyzing my behavior, you should also keep in mind the conditions in our country and the general temperament of the people here. If a traffic accident takes place here, people burn people. In such a tough crowd, I can’t do the show if I don’t behave in a supreme and commanding way. They will throw me away in a second. On some occasions I have to be tough. Certainly, it is my conscious behavior. Be. Cause I always remember that this program will be shown to the whole of the country, and there are always certain guests who create trouble. I can’t continue my program if I get worried. So, I have to control my nerves.

Some say you get nervous sometimes and therefore to cover up your weakness you indulge in this thanedari.

I am compelled to do thanedari. You know the city in which I do my program. It is not an European city where you would find civilized people, who know how to behave as guests. It is a badtameez society. Our people lack education. They don’t know what to do if they are guests somewhere. They burn others’ carpets with their cigarettes. This is our temperament, our national character. If you don’t appoint army personnel at public places, they will burn the trees and destroy railing and grass in the parks. They break road signals just to express their protest. In such a society, how can you expect me to let lose my guests?

But after all, it is television which selects the guests. I believe there are no gate-crashers. And then the viewers identify themselves with the guests, and not with you. Therefore, when you humiliate a guest, a viewer might think you are humiliating him. Am I right?

Look. The invitation cards are distributed in a certain way. Like you ask for a few cards now, I’ll give them to you on your face value. I will never know whom you will hand them over to. I can’t even know who is whose guest. You believe me, as a compere, I have to do much more work than any of my counterpart in any other country.

But I was only talking about your behavior. As a professional media man, you might be knowing it even better than me that such behavior annoys the viewers.

I personally believe that since I am doing this program for the past 11 years, my whole life is an open book for my countrymen. They know me inside out. And I don’t think they hate me. And well, about the bite that you are talking about, I think it should exist in everyone. He who doesn’t get angry is not a human being. He lacks dignity. He is beghairat. That will be nothing but Christianity, that if someone slaps you on one side of your face, you should present the other side. That God is merciful. He who does not feel anger has no conscience and ethics.

You are talking about personal behavior. I had only made a reference to your behavior with guests before the camera. I had only suggested that you should control your temper during your show.

Yes, I should. Look, I have completed my beautiful years of life. Still, I am putting all my labor in my profession. I am mentally a tired person now. I am sick of this job. But I am doing it because I don’t have anything else to do. Otherwise, Tariq Aziz does not need exposure on screen anymore. I think! my face is even more known a face than that of the head of the state. I know that my appearance on screen has become monotonous. But there are no alternatives. Other people don’t even know how to talk. It is not an easy job.

You said that in other countries everything is scripted in such programs. In an earlier interview, you had said that you can’t go according to script.

That is right. That is my weakness. I’ll fall down if I am given a script to read out.

Is there no other way to improve Neelam Ghar?

It can’t be better than what we are doing today. Zia Mohyudin’s was not a quiz show. It was a talk show. He used to arrange each and everything in advance. But a quiz show cannot be pre-arranged. And let me tell you, Neelam Ghar is the only program of its kind in the whole world. It is a musical quiz-talk-advertisement program. And I feel proud of the fact that I have given such a program to Pakistan.

A common charge against your program is that there is a deal between you and some of your guests. You tell them the answers in advance and take your share in the award. Would you comment?

Our society is bound to have doubts about everyone. Because the collective conscience of this society is dishonest. Let me tell you a fact, there is a quiz society in Karachi. Its members have acquired skill in general knowledge. They acquire the same books out of which we prepare our questions. And they have very good memories. So, they have won several cars from Neelam Ghar so far. We know this fact but we can’t stop them from participating in the program.

You sound like someone who is disappointed with the society. Isn’t it so?

Why not? Everyone who has a heart is unhappy here. Who can call this nation alive? There is pressure of foreign loans on everyone, then there is fear of dacoity and kidnapping. Out of the 40 years of our independence, 23 years have been wasted in martial law. You can’t see the real level of poverty of our country in Karachi, but everybody knows what happens to 80 percent of us. You would be surprised to see that. I am not talking like a typical actor. It is just by chance that I earn my livelihood from showbusiness. Sometimes I don’t feel like doing this job but then I take it up like a machine, like a laborer. I have almost lost all my hopes. There can be no improvement unless the whole system is changed.

You talk of changing the whole system, yet you are a part of the official propaganda machinery. How do you get along with that?

I work under a censorship? I don’t go there to say what I personally feel. I am not supposed to violate the given rules. Still, I don’t say anything which is against my mind. You can’t make me tell any lie on television. I too have some principles which are priceless.

You mean you won’t say on television that ‘Gen. Zia ul Haq has enforced Islam’ in Pakistan?

They will not ask me to say that, in the first place. They are not really kids. And I will not say it either. I am the only television compere of this country who never visits official functions.

What was that scandal about your income from Neelam Ghar?

It was discussed in the budget session of the Majlisi Shoora. You know, what could Majlis-i Shoora say about the budget. So, they brought up this kind of scandal Some Jamaat Islami members said that television was patronizing communists and socialists. When they were asked to present certain names, they named me. Then an inquiry was held and every television center was asked to provide the record of the payment made to me.

What is the average income of one Neelam Ghar?

I can’t tell you the exact income. I think the average income of one program is about Rs. 500,000. And the expenses per program are just a few thousand. You will be surprised to know that my payment is even less than that made as the rent of the hall where we stage this show.

How do you compromise with such a meager income?

Television does not pay you money. It gives you respect and fame. Then you cash this respect and fame outside television.

How do you cash in on this respect and fame?

By the grace of God, I am incapable of doing that. I should have set up an advertising agency of my own with the kind of contact with industrialists that I have, but I have not.

So, you don’t have any extra source of income?

No.

You usually take Neelam Ghar to Gulf states. Is it paying?

Yes.

Another charge against your program is that the companies who give advertisements in Neelam Ghar, make a deal with you. They please you some way or the other, and in return, you give their advertisement a little more time than decided, or to prolong its reading. Would you comment?

This is not true. I don’t even know what product belongs to what company. The method is that I am given a list of ads from the television sales office. From that list, I schedule my program.

Does that list tell the exact duration of a certain ad?

The sale office tells us the wording of a certain ad, and it is duly signed by the sales officer. I read it as it is, no more, no less.

What about time duration?

The thing is that since the ads are part of the program, therefore I can’t read these as they read them in small commercials. That is too fast. But I have to synchronize these ads with the overall speed of my program. Therefore, there is no specification of time. I am only supposed to read the message in full. Now it is up to me whether I complete it in two seconds or in 45 seconds.

It was alleged that you were involved in the Actors Equity Raffle Ticket scandal.

No. I am not even a member of the Equity. Only I was made the chief guest at a draw ceremony. Later the Equity officials and the Raffle organizer developed some differences. The Equity people submitted some application to the administration and the ticket was suspended officially. At that time the organizer came to me and asked for help. I went to the Chief Minister with him and pleaded his case, and he was allowed to complete the last draw. Then the martial law authorities requested me to become the arbitrator between the two parties. I held detailed investigation into the whole affair, and when I was almost finalizing my report, the martial law was lifted. So, the whole thing was stopped.

What was your finding, by the way? Who was at fault?

Over 90 percent of the embezzlement was made by the Equity officials, and a very small portion was left with the organizer. But no action was taken against any of them. What else can you expect in this country. You know it better than me.

It was alleged that you were on the side of the organizer, and besides this raffle racket, you are also his partner in some other ventures.

I wish I were. (Laughs). The only fact in this is that he set up a free dispensary and I was invited there to cut the tape. That does not make me a shareholder in his business.

It is said that someone very close to you was given a job in that dispensary on a huge salary.

I can’t say anything about it.

Maybe you should avoid being involved with such persons who do not have good reputations, financially I mean.

Look, I can’t judge a person from his face. I don’t know if someone is a fraud. And let me tell you, this apartment of mine is my only property in the whole of my life. And I am not hiding my money to spend in future. What future is left for me? But of course, I live like kings. I don’t have any complexes.

I only suggested this because somehow or the other, you are likely to be involved in some financial scandal. Earlier there was something about Tahira Naqvi Fund.

 Let me make this clear… Tahira Naqvi requested me to help her when she was on her death bed. I went to see the then Information Secretary, who advised me to take certain steps. When I was in Peshawar, I read in the newspapers that Roohi Bano had set up a fund in her own name for Tahira’s help. So, I rang her up and asked her to refrain from doing so. But she didn’t accept my advice, and instead said something against me in the newspapers. So, I came back to Lahore and held a Press conference to refute her allegations. Finally, we closed the fund, and organized a stage show. All the income from that show was deposited in a bank account and arrangements were made to send Tahira abroad for treatment. But she expired after reaching Rawalpindi. And let me tell you, now I have stopped taking interest in such matters. Because I know that this crowd is below my mental caliber. They haven’t seen any big thing in their lives, so they make allegations against me.

What are your future plans?

Nothing special. I have this belief that I am a walking cheque, and I can cash in myself anytime, in my profession. Believe me, money always chases me, but I only earn what exactly my need is. I know that my best time of life is passing and I am not doing anything creative. It is the biggest regret of my life. That my qualities are going waste, and I can’t anything! about it.